Sheer Creativity
Step into the chill vibes of Sheer Creativity, your go-to laid-back podcast about creatives for creatives! Immerse yourself in dynamic conversations, insightful interviews, and performances, all centered around the creative experience. With me, Laraya, as your guide, we'll blend special guests, personal development nuggets, and engaging creative content to inspire and motivate you on your artistic journey.
Sheer Creativity
Thriving on the Road Less Traveled with Artist & Jewelry Maker Sandra Uche
Choosing a creative path is always a daunting task, but Sandra Uche is grateful to be thriving on the road less traveled. In this conversation, Sandra shares her journey from corporate to creative, leaving behind her education in public health and starting a jewelry business.
SUPPORT SANDRA
Personal Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sandraauche/
Jewelry Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/nneala.co/
SHEER CREATIVITY LINKS
Read Laraya's creative writing on Of Wisdom and Wander
Check out Laraya's website
Order Laraya's poetry collection
Welcome back to the Sheer Creativity Podcast, the podcast about creatives for creatives. And today I have Miss Sandra Uche. How are you, Sandra?
Sandra:I'm good. How are you?
Raya:I'm doing well. And you work in a lot of disciplines. I see like you do art, you do digital art, you do jewelry. So we have a lot to talk about.
Sandra:Yes, we do. Yes.
Raya:But first, tell us more about you, your age, where you're from, all the good stuff.
Sandra:Okay I am 25. I will be, 26 in September. I'm a Libra so
Raya:Ooh. Almost there.
Sandra:I know. I am actually Nigerian. I moved to the US in the fall of 2019 for my M B A and then Covid happened and everything just kind of spread out from there.
Raya:Yeah, I understand.
Sandra:That's why I started to go crazy. Cause prior to moving I had like an image in my head like, oh, I'm gonna come here to school, get a job, you know, live the quiet American dream life. And then the disease came and I'm like,
Raya:Well, this was not what I was expecting.
Sandra:Yeah. It gave too much time to think. My life and, you know, it was, I know we'll probably get into like the deeper stuff later. Mm-hmm. So like, just about me, just know that I have been in Baltimore for, it'll be four years this year in August. I'm Nigerian. I am an artist and I am a 25 year old.
Raya:Okay. Where'd you get your MBA from?
Sandra:The University of Baltimore.
Raya:Okay.
Sandra:Maryland. Yeah.
Raya:Yeah. So starting from the beginning, how did you get into... I think you said you started off drawing on your website.
Sandra:Yeah.
Raya:So how'd you get into the drawing and then diversifying into these different avenues of creativity?
Sandra:Okay. So let me give you a very long time ago backstory here.
Raya:I'm ready.
Sandra:I actually started drawing at like five and I will say I made my first drawing to Spider-Man and his amazing friends.
Raya:Okay.
Sandra:Okay. There was this um, character on there called Firestar. That was my first drawing. So I made that drawing and I was like, huh, this is fun and then I started drawing multiple times a day after school. We had, I had papers everywhere, just papers covered in stuff. And I did that till I was like 16 in high school. Here, I'll say that as like the 12th grade, but that was like the last year of high school. And then after that, my parents like to say I failed in high school because I spent most of my time drawing.
Raya:But I mean, you were doing something you love.
Sandra:I just sucked. I was in the sciences. I was bad at it. I was,
Raya:oh, sciences, miss me with that.
Sandra:But they wanted me to be a doctor so bad and see how that worked out for them. But, um, um, But yeah, I did that till I was 16 and then it was time to apply to university and I had to like put all of that aside. As I said, I kind of failed high school, so it was like a lot of running around to make sure I got into college when I was supposed to get into college. Most people don't know this about me, so this is me opening up this aspect. I struggled so bad so I did that and I got into college. I studied, I got my bachelor's in public health, but during those four years I did not draw at all. Mm-hmm. Um, it was mostly just I'm bored in class, I'm just scribbling and, but nothing serious, you know. Like you said in my notes, just little, you know, something to get my brain not to switch off while someone else is talking but I did that for four years and then afterwards it was more like, oh, trying to find what I'm going to do with myself. You know, try and get a career and all of that. And I did that for another two years. Mm-hmm. And then I moved here for my master's cuz I thought, okay, I'll just continue the career talk. And then after one semester here, COVID started and I was
Raya:Oh yeah.
Sandra:At home. So much time on my hands and I had to turn back to the one thing I knew was gonna keep me alive in that period. Mm-hmm. And that was drawing. then I met my current partner who encouraged me and supported me, got me my first iPad that I started going digital because traditional drawing was like really messy. And I was leaving the apartment, so I didn't want nobody to take my deposit cuz I stained something with paint so I started drawing digitally. I have been drawing digitally since I'd say I started that more in like 2021.
Raya:Okay.
Sandra:Yeah. But I started like, drawing again, just like regular marker drawings and, you know, I started taking it more seriously and trying to get back into it in 2020 at the peak of the pandemic. But I started taking it more seriously in 21. And somehow the jewelry started from that because a lot of my drawings are like very bright and colorful. So I started adding accessories.
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:And I was like, well you know, I could try to make these cuz I like them, that's why I draw them.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:So I started like researching like various mediums I used to achieve my vision and clay was the best thing. Polymer clay, cuz it comes in all those colors. It's not something I have to go back and color by myself, even though that's something I would like to do in the future. But you know, this is something to start with and like just actualize those visions. So I started making clay jewelry like three months ago. Actually it was three months yesterday.
Raya:Wow.
Sandra:Yeah. But I was like hyper fixated, my neurodivergent brain hyper fixates on something and I do that like for days straight and that's how I started making jewelry.
Raya:Wow. I didn't know. It's just been three months.
Sandra:It's, it's been, I thought it in February.
Raya:Wow.
Sandra:I was on TikTok. I had a few TikTok videos. I bought a set on Amazon and I made my first few with just one minute videos. Cause TikTok hadn't even started doing them three minute videos at the time. So that was, they were not the best things, but they looked wearable. So, yeah. Crazy.
Raya:You can really learn a lot on TikTok. It's actually crazy.
Sandra:No, I know. Yeah. That's how I started. So that's where I am now.
Raya:I love that. So going back, like were you not passionate about public health? That you weren't really like engaged in those classes?
Sandra:You wanna know the funny thing? The funny thing is I really enjoy public health. Because it was like, I felt like I was serving mm-hmm. a community. And that's something I really enjoyed doing. I worked in nonprofits, I worked in government healthcare, and this was back in Nigeria. So it felt like I was making more of an impact. And then um, I did some jobs here and there, public health related, before I moved here. I moved here. My MBA was in healthcare management. However, the problem arose when I started to learn about healthcare here.
Raya:Hmm.
Sandra:And I realized that it didn't align with my ethics at all. Zero.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:Nothing. I was like, Uhuh, I, there is no way in hell I'll be able to survive this. Like even just being in class, just learning and like writing papers and like doing research. And I was like, nope. Mm-hmm. And even like my first corporate job out of college was not in healthcare. It was a startup. And that is a story for another day but no. I personally just feel like that is not really the path for me. Like yeah, working in an office and having like just this straight up job. So many people have tried to tell me that that's the path for me because of all the degrees and cause of how smart they think I am. And look, not, even if I do it and I'm good at it, I'm going to be miserable. Life is too short to spend the majority to spend 40 hours a week. Being miserable. Yes. And then to add on the extra hours you're going to spend recovering from that misery. Yes. There's not that many hours, so I decided to get out of it.
Raya:I understand that wholeheartedly. My job does this like seminar day where they close the building and we do workshops and team building stuff and we went through like this customer service workshop, and they said that you spend 60% of your life at work, which means that you spend more time with coworkers
Sandra:Yeah
Raya:than you do with your own family, than you do spending time doing the things that you actually want to do. Mm-hmm. That is simply too much of a percentage for me to be mad that I'm at work.
Sandra:Exactly.
Raya:So you gotta be doing something you love.
Sandra:Exactly. Like I understand that there needs to be balance, there need to be people in these environments, but it's just not me. And yeah. You know, those who are there and enjoy it, that's them. But you know, that can't be for everybody. The fact that, you know, society has forced us to have that as an option doesn't mean we exactly always have to like comply. It's like I, one thing I've realized is I'm very uncertain with this because it's like, it's easier to just go to a job, get a paycheck.
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:But then your body's happy, you have all these things you're doing, but you are inside like every morning when you have to go to work like, this is what happened to me for, I worked at my last job for like seven months. Mm-hmm. And every day I had to wake up to go to work. Mm-hmm. I literally felt my blood just turned into thorns. I was stabbing me, telling me to stay back in that bed. Don't work. Yes. But I need that money.
Raya:Honestly, like hearing that alarm go off, it's like, here we go again.
Sandra:Yeah, yeah. And let's not talk about all the other issues that come with being Black in corporate America. Oh yes. Let's aside the fact that you have to actually work for these people and put your time and energy. There's still like these other unique problems that we have to deal with. Mm-hmm. Just being out there. And I dealt with a lot of that and it was very new to me. Cause I'm not from here. Yeah. It was like, I came from a place where I knew I would always be welcome and to a place where people were looking out at me as an entry level candidate to constantly be a scapegoat.
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:So I, I was miserable for a long time and coming out of that, I tried to find something else. I couldn't, even though I have the experience, so I just took that as a sign that, well, universe said no.
Raya:Well, I ain't supposed to be here. That's okay.
Sandra:I try my best. Mm-hmm. I try my best. So I'm where I am today. I'm full of uncertainty, but I'm hopeful that, you know, it'll all work out.
Raya:Yeah and honestly, you're not the only one in that place.
Sandra:That helps too. Knowing that I'm not alone in like Yeah. Situation. Yeah.
Raya:Just for my own curiosity, what are kind of the key differences between healthcare in Nigeria and healthcare in the United States?
Sandra:Well, for starters, it's cheaper and accessible. More accessible. and I feel like there's still a, a bit of like heart in it. There's like some compassion there.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:Here it's like if you can't pay, you suddenly don't look like a person. Mm-hmm. It's like they want your money and nothing else. Yeah. Which sometimes is an issue back home, but like, even though like the amount you're supposed to pay, something that you can easily gather together here. If someone hands you$25,000 bill, where do you wanna get that from? Where do you want to get that from? But like it's, I, I personally feel like it's, it's very different. It is very different. You can easily, like you have something going on with you, you can easily walk into a hospital and get an appointment. Yeah. Right there. It's like walking. But here you have to call. Like I remember when I had to set my first physical. Mm-hmm. And I had to be three months. I'm like, if there was something wrong with me and I like, if I had something like really going on, I'll be dead by the time my appointment came.
Raya:Exactly.
Sandra:Yeah. So like that's one of the issues. Then there was the whole race issue too.
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:Healthcare, which for some reason when I was in school, nobody wanted to address as much. All I know is that I got A's in my papers because someone was reading it but like to have those conversations with like the general class was a problem. If we cannot talk about this as a group, as a next generation of healthcare administrators, people are going to be in charge, then there's a big problem. So that put me off a lot.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:Yeah. Cause it's like, it's not willing to change from the top. So what's the point?
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:I'm not going to sell my integrity because this is what I studied in school. So, no.
Raya:Yeah, I definitely understand that.
Sandra:Yeah.
Raya:So after receiving your MBA and deciding that you didn't wanna go this route of public health mm-hmm. What were your next future business goals?
Sandra:I did not have any business goals after decide I wanna go to public health. As I said, I got out of jobs. So my goal was basically to, you know, have a nice, cuz it's an MBA at the end of the day. Mm-hmm hmm. So you have like a nice business career, you know, climb the top of the corporate ladder. Then I saw the bottom of the ladder. I looked off. It was too far.
Raya:You saw the ladder like no nevermind.
Sandra:No thank you. It's not worth it. Nah, that ladder is too high up. It's very gappy and I'm scared of heights. You can keep your ladders. I'm good.
Raya:I know that's right.
Sandra:Yeah. But that's what I thought I was going to do. I thought, you know, I was going to just have to get over myself. Work a nice corporate job, wake up, dress up, going to the office, endure for eight hours, come back. Then I did that for seven months and I hated myself the entire time. And I was like, This cannot be a long term plan.
Raya:Have to pivot
Sandra:that. That couldn't, that was no way in hell. No. Uhuh. But yeah, that was literally what changed. And this, I left that job. I was laid off in October.
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:And from October till like end of January, I was in limbo just floating about doing my digital art, posting. I did have an exhibition in November.
Raya:Oh, tell me about that.
Sandra:Yeah, it was, it was like a local thing and it was just like out of nowhere. And that happened. I was like, you know what? I'm not doing anything with my time. I'll print some of my art, frame them, take it there. And it was really good. It was like a nice little dining experience, private dining experience. Mm-hmm. And I had to talk about my work. That was the first time I'd ever talked about my work in public.
Raya:Was it like a little nerve wracking? How did you feel sharing that with the public for the first time?
Sandra:I'm very confident in my work.
Raya:Yeah. It's great.
Sandra:I'm very confident in my work, so I wasn't like nervous about it. The only thing that like I was nervous about cause I hadn't like talked to that many people
Raya:mm-hmm.
Sandra:in-person in a while. So I had to like mentally prepare myself for that, like throughout the day. But when it comes to my art,
Raya:You don't play about that.
Sandra:Wake me up. I got something to say. But it was nice. It was a really good experience. I told all my prints that I took there. Ah. Um, yeah. Made some nice connections and I liked it. And then after that limbo again holiday. So the limbo didn't really matter cuz I like to eat and get fat.
Raya:My favorite part.
Sandra:Exactly. Um, then January, you know, the whole new year buzz and everything. But I feel like this is the first January where I wasn't like under a unnecessary pressure.
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:Cause I just felt like I had already kind of made up my mind that I wasn't going to try Yeah. That life again, but I didn't know what was next. And as at this time, I'll tell you that as at the middle of January, I didn't know I was going to be making jewelry first week of February.
Raya:Wow.
Sandra:I did not, it hadn't even popped up in my head. Yeah. Um, I'll say one of the things that really kicked off that journey was me, like looking through my procreate. Mm-hmm. Uh, and I was looking at the earrings I kept putting on my prints. I'm like, I like those. I wanna make those.
Raya:Wow.
Sandra:And then I wanted TikTok and then I ordered the thingy and I made a few and I was like, this is nice.
Raya:Yeah. Let's jump into that process. So I know nothing about jewelry making, so run me through the process of what jewelry making looks like.
Sandra:Okay. Huh. Let me just tell you that, you know, when you see them sped up videos online, it was, it is not. It is not. I thought, first of all, Polymer Clay looks like Play-Doh number one. It is not Play-Doh.
Raya:It does look like Play-Doh.
Sandra:It's, It is stronger than Play-Doh. Okay. It is hard. Yeah. You have to like really condition it to soften it. And even when it's soft, it's still not Play-Doh.
Raya:Okay.
Sandra:Yeah, it's still, so let me just clear that air cause I had that misconception it looks like, but it is not Play-doh. Prior to the journey, the process basically is, I'm not a planner, so I'm not one of those people who will sit down, create a mood board, you know, draw. I tried that. It didn't work. I didn't, Dr I didn't make anything I drew cause I sat down, I had another idea and I'm like, oh, lemme try this. They just kind of descend into madness from there. It's basically easy. It's like I have my cutters, the different shapes. I do want to start like free hand cutting now just to try something different but what you have to do is you pick a bar of clay. The price ranged from like two to$4.
Raya:Okay.
Sandra:Yeah. Per bar. You need a lot of bars, by the way.
Raya:Oh, I was like, that's not a bad price but then you gotta buy a whole bunch of them.
Sandra:But like, for like a pair or two pairs, depending on how comical you are with the clay. I'm not, I'm very wasteful. It's so bad. But like, let's say you wanna make a one color pair. You get a bar of clay, you cut it, you have to condition it, you have to soften it and make it into like a slap. Kind of like when you're baking and you want like that thin mm-hmm. Just flat. You have to do that. And that's like cut in. You have, I use a pasta roller cuz it's easier, but you can hand roll. So depending on what results I'm trying to get. I can either hand roll or pasta roll, preferably pasta roll, even though it's cut me a few times trying to clean it, but sacrifices, um, uh, but yeah, you do that then it's nice and soft and you take the cutters like that's how I made this one I'm wearing.
Raya:Oh, they're pretty.
Sandra:Thick cutter. Thank you. Cut it out. Um, on a tile, it has to be on a shiny ceramic surface. Otherwise it's gonna stick and just be bad. Then put it in the oven. Bake it. It takes like 30 minutes to bake. Let it cool. One thing that really shocked me when I first started was that when you were done baking polymer clay, it's still bendy.
Raya:Oh.
Sandra:So I thought, yeah. So I thought like, whoa, this is it done? Is it cooked? So I left it overnight and it like hardened over time.
Raya:Okay.
Sandra:But like right after, for like the first few hours, it is still going.
Raya:I was like, did I turn the oven on?
Sandra:Yeah. I was like, okay. Then after that, now comes the hard part.
Raya:Okay.
Sandra:The finishing, you have to sand it down, make it smooth, make it smooth around the edges. It's a lot of dust. Sometimes I use UV resin to carry, to give it like a glossy finish. Other times I have like this, um, scaly glaze too. I can just put it, it's not like, it's not as shiny as UV resin, but it's like a little bit of, you know, something something.
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:And yeah, they add the wait. You have to add the things before you finish it, the findings. See, I don't even know the terms. I'm very, very random. And one day I'll learn the proper terms. You need to like be patient with yourself. That's one thing I've learned. When it comes to like creative things. I'm used to being good at what I try, but with this, its a bit of a challenge for me cuz let's just say I was raised by people who, when something wasn't perfect, you, I got scolded. So like when it, it also applies to my work. So I wanted to be perfect the first time. I want the process to be as clean as possible. I want it to be perfect. So if there's one thing making jewelry has taught me, it cannot always be perfect. It cannot always. I've had to, I've had to constantly remind myself that perfection is a myth.
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:Especially when it comes to like creative endeavors, you cannot always attain perfection. Sometimes when I start working with the clay, I'm looking at, I'm like starting to look a little somehow, like you're not looking real promising. Right. And I just put it down. I look at you like, oh God. And I'm like, okay, okay. Let's just, let's just see how far this will go. And then I continue with it and it comes out like so pretty, and I'm like, damn, I could have thrown you away, huh? Yeah.
Raya:See, usually when you're in the process and it doesn't look immediately like it's supposed to Yeah. You're like, mm, yeah, I don't, I don't know about this one. But if you come back to it and it's just, it starts looking like it's got that gente quo and then it's like, wait a minute, I shouldn't have. I shouldn't have judged this before.
Sandra:It's like are you the same one I was looking at like minutes ago. Yeah.
Raya:Like, hold on, you, you've suddenly changed.
Sandra:Exactly. Like some of my best pieces have come out like that. Like it's always like, when I mean process of making and they, they just look a little weird. I'm like, damn, I'm just gonna throw this out. But, and I've made that mistake sometimes that I like, find, think of something, I'm like, oh, I could have used that. So I started putting them in like a little, so I have like a whole box of like leftovers.
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:From like different patterns and everything. Cause I've come to understand that they do come in handy, like when you least expect them to. And I, it's, it's easier like when you can. Take something like that and just like put it aside and come back to it. I've learned to have to come back to things. It's not just, oh, it doesn't look good. Throw it away.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:I used to be the master of that, but I've had to learn that, you know, the fact that it doesn't look good now doesn't mean it's not gonna look good in another hour or in an tomorrow. Like, so, yeah, trusting the process and being patient and not expecting perfection. Those are like, there's one thing about jewelry making. That's something that you're going to have to carry with you every time you're at that workstation, because some of the mixtures be looking funky in the beginning, so, um, yeah, that's like, you know, I, I explained the process in the EST terms, but someone will understand it. Yeah. And like those three things, no perfection, patience, and enjoy the process. Those are three things that are necessary for every time you're at that table to work.
Raya:I love that.
Sandra:Thank you.
Raya:Would you say you are a, like a trial and error type of learner?
Sandra:Um, Yes, I will. Sometimes. It depends on what I'm trying.
Raya:Okay.
Sandra:I, I try a lot of things. I've tried a lot of things, but you know, the one thing I'm scared of trying is sewing. I want to sew.
Raya:Oh my gosh. I cannot sew.
Sandra:I, I want,
Raya:it's so daunting.
Sandra:I will look, I've had a sewing machine looking at me for over two years. It's on my table, looks at me every time I have, I literally have everything I need to do it, but every time I look at it, I'm like, Ooh,
Raya:maybe you gotta just start with a small project.
Sandra:I think so. Make like a face mask question.
Raya:Yeah. Like a, like a small pillowcase or something.
Sandra:Yeah, I think I should do that. Um, but yeah, I am a trial and error person. One thing I've tried that somehow I've been unable to learn is like crochet.
Raya:Oh yeah. I used to crochet.
Sandra:My hands just cannot. I tried. I have genuinely tried.
Raya:I also think I don't have the attention span to crochet long.
Sandra:Oh my God. I have a friend who crochets every time she'll be at the dinner table crocheting. I'm like, girl, you gotta teach me. And she's like, whenever you're ready. YouTube wasn't working. Trial and error definitely. I'm just, as I said, I'm a very scared to, I used, I don't say I used to be, I still am. I'm just like, I just try to step past it. But I am a scared to feel kind of person. Hmm. I put that on my parents. They have to take responsibility for something. Um, every time I failed something, I got punished or scolded or something. There was always like some form of reprimand. Yeah. Um, so that has translated heavily into my adult life. I don't really like it. I'm trying to heal from that. Yeah. But I still struggle with it, so, and as a creative, that's a horrible trait to have because the entire career is trial and error.
Raya:Yeah. Creativity is definitely the type of thing where it, it has to flow freely and you can't automatically dismiss it.
Sandra:Yep.
Raya:Like, you can't automatically say, oh, this is bad. Oh, this is good. Or this is like, it takes a, it's a process for sure. Yeah. That's, You can't really judge the process until it's all the way through.
Sandra:Mm-hmm.
Raya:I find that people, their taste in jewelry kind of translate to their sense of fashion. So what's kind of your fashion and how does that style translate to your jewelry?
Sandra:Okay. Oh my God, I was hoping this would come up. I saw it on the list, hoping it come up. Lemme be honest here. When it comes to fashion, I'm a basic bitch. In my head, I'm a fashion girl, but it doesn't translate to my outfits, so I. When it comes to fashion, the big thing for me is comfort. I like to be comfortable.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:I like to be comfortable. Unfortunately, some of the most fashionable things are not the most comfortable.
Raya:Mm-hmm. I agree.
Sandra:So I like comfort a little too much. I tend to wear like a lot of basics. Shirt, jeans, um, skirts, you know, just the general things. But I used to wear like a lot of neutrals in the past, but now I'm trying to like adding some colors and everything. But like, even wearing neutrals are like part of like my inspiration to do this because I love accessorizing. I'm wearing a plain blue dress, but it could be plain, but all the other stuff, it's not gonna be plain. I do want to add more color to my wardrobe. Like I've, I, this is like the third one of this dress I have. The other two are like black and green. It's like, you know what color blue? Um, that's literally what I've been doing with fashion. But no matter how, like even if in the future, which I still see myself doing, I like jump into like garment design and everything. Comfort is still gonna come first.
Raya:Love being comfortable.
Sandra:Exactly. I like the flowy gowns, the flowy pants, a loose t-shirt, a hoodie, sweatpants, whatever.
Raya:Comfort. I'm with it. As long as they got pockets, somewhere I can put stuff.
Sandra:Thank you. Thank you.
Raya:I'm living the dream. Thank you. I want to have pockets so I can put snacks and shit in there, you know? Yes. I got my goldfish in my left pocket, keys in the right.
Sandra:They never gave us pockets. Yeah. Um, but yeah, like, so I won't really say, I will say like how my fashion sense ties into my jewelry is like the contrast.
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:I will dress neutral, simple, but I will accessorize and that's why my jewelry is as eccentric as it is cuz it's easy to like wear something basic and just go crazy with accessories.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:That to worry about, oh, my clothes are this and this and this. And then you have all these colorful accessories and you're like, oh, they, they have to match. I don't have to stress about these. I just put them, plop them, whatever. But if I had like crazy fashion on my body, I'll have to be like, oh my God, what earring am I gonna wear to match this and blah, blah blah. I don't have the strength for that. Life is already too hard.
Raya:No, I get that. Like I, I feel like you gotta have a little bit of basic and then you gotta have that drama.
Sandra:Yeah, exactly.
Raya:I like a nice dramatic piece especially cuz my hair is short. Like the earrings got to be popping. Sometimes I feel, yeah. I feel a little bit of vulnerable up here.
Sandra:Yeah.
Raya:Cause my hair is short, but when I got that nice statement piece, that's how you gotta do it.
Sandra:Nice, big, you know, color, nobody's gonna see your hair or anything's just that earring that, and that's, that's literally the mission of my brand.
Raya:I love that.
Sandra:That is literally, I'm not a talker. I'm a very introverted person. And when I'm in public, when I go to like events and everything, I don't like starting conversations so I want someone to see my earring and be like, oh my God, that's so nice.
Raya:What are some of the key sources of inspiration for you when it comes to your art?
Sandra:Oh my God. I'm heavily inspired by black women. We are gorgeous. I like beautiful things. I like beautiful people. Color and black women combined. But like when, that's when it comes to like the fashion and everything. Mm-hmm. When it comes to my art, it's similar, but there is an additional thing with my art. Peace of mind and solace are two things that you'll see in like a lot of my digital art, you know, alone. I have a few pieces on friendship. I think maybe just one, in fact, but like a lot of like solace and peace. And the story behind that is growing up as a first daughter in a Nigerian household, I did not have peace, so call it a fantasy of mine. But like for the first 20 something years of my life, I was always surrounded by people and taking care of people and running around on behalf of other people. And one of my biggest dreams was to just have time to just be. Cuz I like to check in with myself at the end of the day. Yeah. I like to sit down, daydream going to my own head and ask how are we doing? How are we feeling?
Raya:Mm-hmm.
Sandra:You know? But I didn't get the chance to do that for most of my life and that's probably why it took me quite a lot of time to figure out who I really was and who I was trying to be. Cuz there was just so much noise. So like that is a big inspiration when it comes to like my paintings and like my art pieces and everything. It's just that alone, just that emptiness, just empty space where I'm just. But I always have to stay colorful too and be black so.
Raya:Yeah. Now that I think about it, I was going through your website and there are mostly just black women by themselves and really just enjoying the space that they're in.
Sandra:Exactly. And exactly. That is the theme of, that's the theme of all my work. Now. That's gonna be the theme of all my work for a while. Who knows? But I know like at least for the next year or two, that's going to stand to get that out of my system. I've experienced, I finally got the chance to experience, so I know how it feels and like drawing it, it's helping me convey my excitement in just that alone space, cuz it took me a long time to achieve that. So.
Raya:Well, congratulations to you for achieving it.
Sandra:Thank you. Definitely took a while, but thank you. It took,
Raya:yeah, it takes a long time to like redo the work that our parents did to us.
Sandra:Exactly. So, you know, you guys go have to go back and edit and like take out some things and add some things and even bring out the things like aspects of yourself that you had to hide. So, yeah. Yeah.
Raya:So how did you begin the process of then selling your art?
Sandra:Oh girl.
Raya:Sandra, you are funny.
Sandra:Oh my God. Okay, so let me just, let me just give you the complete overview. Um, When I started selling my art, I was an international student, I was on a visa. I wasn't allowed.
Raya:I didn't know that was a thing.
Sandra:That's why I didn't really Oh, that's a thing.
Raya:Oh wow.
Sandra:Yeah. So I couldn't, um, promote it. It was there. So those who knew it was there, knew it was there. So I was just posting it. I just had the link there. So like, you know, you see it, you like it, you go on the link, you expect to see something, you see it, you buy the prints. I was selling on Imprint, but I didn't touch the money cuz I didn't want it to get reported or anything. So it's still there. I literally just got my green card like yesterday.
Raya:Oh wow.
Sandra:Now I can promote it, but like the entire time I was selling it, like, and the other people I sold to outside of like the online space, offline were like direct. I didn't want to paper trail. Thankfully we are beyond that and as I said, I didn't touch the money, so I didn't do anything wrong. It's still there, so, but like, it's a part of my story. It's a part of my journey, so I'm going to share it. But screamer, the money's still there. I didn't touch it.
Raya:She didn't do anything wrong, guys.
Sandra:You know, just, just try to survive. People have done worse.
Raya:That's actually a crazy rule like, I don't...
Sandra:that is a whole other phase of my life that I don't even wanna relive, you know?
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:But I had to do that. And one thing I, I know that helped was the fact that I just got to share it. Just sharing it and getting like opinions on it and just having people enjoy it was like big part for me. I haven't sold that many prints but like the fact that I know that people actually enjoy my work is enough for me. Earrings, though, they have to sell cuz I need money. Um,
Raya:I know that's right, and you gotta put em in the oven and bake and all that stuff. You deserve to be paid.
Sandra:It's a lot of work and it takes at least an hour. Please pay me but yeah, that's like, basically like been my art journey. I'm still a little iffy about like selling art cuz I feel like I'm not there yet but I'll still post. I'm sure if you wanna get it, feel free to get it. But like, my priorities are a little interchanged right now.
Raya:Sandra. You're there.
Sandra:I'm there?
Raya:Yes. I looked at your website. You are there.
Sandra:I'm there. Wow. Okay. I guess, I guess it's gotta come, it's gotta come on the same, same wavelength as as the jewelry.
Raya:Yeah. I mean, if you wait until you feel like you're there, then you're never there.
Sandra:Never. That's true. Like,
Raya:you gotta out and do it.
Sandra:You're on something. Yeah, you're right. You are right.
Raya:That's just something I had to tell myself too. I think as creatives, we're very critical of the work that we do. I'm a poet, so sometimes people would read my work and be like, wow, this is great. And I'd be like, wow, you're wrong. So, um, so it took me a long time to like actually realize, hey, like this is good. People enjoy this. Like if you put something out, you should get paid for it, you know? And the amount of work that you put into something is definitely payable and looking at your work and looking at those earrings, I saw a pair that already sold and I was like, dang.
Sandra:So, which one?
Raya:It was the teal ones.
Sandra:Wait, the mint Green ones?
Raya:Yeah. Those were cute.
Sandra:Oh my god. Don't give up on that yet. That's the thing I'm going tell you. I might be making some more of that because I've had like three other people ask for that particular piece.
Raya:Yeah, and I also like the purple pair. It's like, it's square and it has the little, um, like glittery look to it.
Sandra:Oh, yeah. I, I know the one you're talking about.
Raya:Yeah. So you're there, Sandra, you gotta, you gotta do it.
Sandra:Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. I know. I'm just starting like the, the way I've put myself out this past few days, I've never done it like this. Like most times I'm usually like, oh my God, I don't know what people are, you know, but I need the money. I, I don't care what people think.
Raya:Exactly. When it comes down to that bottom line, Hey, buy these earrings.
Sandra:I see like, oh my God, people are going to think it's so expensive. But like, I was thinking about like the pricing and everything, and I was trying to compare to like other polymer clay starters. And mine is a little on the higher end, but I'm like, I know the amount of brain work I put into that. I know the amount of time
Raya:mm-hmm.
Sandra:I put into that. Clay is not cheap and it is scarce so like some suppliers have started to like raise the price and I had to buy a whole bunch in bulk just so I don't run out. So it's like by the time you put all these things together, I consider inflation and everything's like, you know, I, I cannot start low and then struggle to raise it.
Raya:Yeah. And at the end of the day, people, people pay top dollar for what they want.
Sandra:Exactly.
Raya:Like there's a lot of people that pay top dollar for ugly stuff and, and it's like now when it's pretty and they know that they're supporting a creative out here and you're putting their heart and soul into what you do, people will come and people will buy. I am people. So it's like, it's always like that. I don't know if you've seen on the internet where people are like selling something and their friends are like, Hey, can I get it at a lower price? And it's like N no, no. Because of all people, you should know the work that I put into.
Sandra:Exactly.
Raya:So pay me what I am worth which is a lot.
Sandra:Exactly, exactly. And that's one thing that like I'm not listening to any excuses. Like if you're my friend and you cannot afford it or anything, just tell me straight up. Yeah, and that's fine. I get that.
Raya:And you can save up. You don't have to buy it immediately.
Sandra:I get that. Like, but trying to like low ball me on purpose and just like, oh friends and family discount like girl? You're my first customer and you want a discount.
Raya:No.
Sandra:That just does not
Raya:make any sense to me.
Sandra:What do you think is do to my morale if you as my first customer is low balling me? Because we are friends.
Raya:Exactly. Like this is business.
Sandra:It's business.
Raya:I have to pay my light bill.
Sandra:Support me, support me. And let's know that, you know, I will appreciate it. And I would remember that you are my first customer and my friend and you supported me wholeheartedly. And you know that sentiment is already there, but like, you know, like this is not my first time trying to start a business. I had like a snack business. That was, let's just pretend like that didn't happen. But like when I did that, I had like friends, you know, asking me for this thing. I was already selling really cheap for lower prices and I'm like, mm-hmm. Nope, sorry.
Raya:You see this price right here? The sticker price. That's what I'm gonna get.
Sandra:Exactly.
Raya:And I'm not going any less than that. Sometimes support is a dollar sign like,
Sandra:In business it is. Unless maybe we have like a whole vending thing and you help me do like some of the labor, you know, that's also time and America time is also a dollar sign, so I get that. But like it was just like a text away, oh hey, I wanna get this and you're asking me for a discount. Girl, do you even care about me? No.
Raya:Especially what you know, I'm trying to make this my livelihood.
Sandra:Exactly.
Raya:People are outrageous.
Sandra:The audacity out here. Oh my God.
Raya:Speaking of people, how did you build your following on Instagram because you are over 13 K ma'am?
Sandra:Instagram, Instagram might be the worst thing that ever happened to social media, and for some reason they don't wanna go away and let us move on to something better. Um,
Raya:Okay, why?
Sandra:Let me, let me, let me go back. See, I've, I've constant, I've always been on a creative journey my entire life. Even when I stopped doing what I really liked doing, I've always done something. So I grew my Instagram to, originally it was like 19K. This was in undergrad when I was studying public health. I took up makeup artistry and photography at the same time so I was dropping a lot of makeup and photography content. I knew a lot of people. I was socializing, you know, I was in my social butterfly bag. Then my account grew and then I got outta college and real life kicked my ass.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:And I was off the Instagram for some time. I was like not really doing any of those things. So that was working corporate. I was trying to figure out myself. I was trying to figure out stuff and everything. So my page kind of like just went downhill. And mind you, like the now 13,000 thousand was prior to whatever this rubbish algorithm they have. Oh, now, oh yeah. So like everybody was seeing my posts, cuz I post a lot, like I have a lot of posts now, but I have probably two times more in my archives. Oh wow. So everybody was seeing everything else getting followers from far and wide, like as I said it was 19,000. Then this algorithm thing started.
Raya:They trying to prioritize those reels.
Sandra:Let's just say ain't nobody got time for that.
Raya:No we don't.
Sandra:This is stressful.
Raya:I was so tired of it. I'm so tired.
Sandra:It's stressful. Sometimes I wanna just make jewelry without having to record it. Huh.
Raya:Why can't y'all just find me like. I just, it's a lot.
Sandra:Let's just say I have been on that 13,000 for like three years now.
Raya:That's still a loyal following.
Sandra:Hasn't grown that I post something and I'm like, oh, 13,000 followers and I get 50 likes.
Raya:You see how Instagram will do you?
Sandra:Exactly. And I wanna look and I'm like, is it that I have bots in my account or anything? I'm like, there's nothing. These are all people that I like. I can mentally like recognize that these are people that have followed me like through the years, but they cannot see my posts and I can't even see theirs either. Everybody has the same issue. Unless you're like an influencer that's like fully active on Instagram, everybody has the same issue. Yeah. I follow some people just to see their work and cuz I follow a lot of creatives too, but I can't see their stuff just by following them. Yeah, because Instagram is not showing me. So it's like, at this point, it's the only reason I have Instagram now is cause it's what we have right now. TikTok gets annoying.
Raya:So this is the last resort.
Sandra:Literally the last resort. So I'm like, can they go away and open the door for someone else?
Raya:Honestly, I'm about to really prioritize Facebook.
Sandra:I'm starting to like actually move some things to Facebook too, because it's like, that seems to be the only constant, like it has saved Facebook, Instagram, God.
Raya:Yeah. I don't even see my friends anymore on Instagram. I was like, I've been following these people for years.
Sandra:So it's like, what's the point? And they're like, oh, you have to constantly post. I have a life, I'm a grown ass woman. I cannot be on Instagram posting.
Raya:That's so true.
Sandra:Posting all the time. Because every time you watch like all these social media consultants and everything, and they're like, you have to constantly post. You have to constantly post. You have to. And I'm like, well, technically, as I, I opened a fresh page for the jewelry and I've been trying to post more frequently. I cannot do the everyday thing. I'll post for my stories for like the whole, I can't do it every day. But I will say that that is starting to help. It's difficult though.
Raya:It is.
Sandra:It is really difficult. Like I'm not even going to lie. Like, especially if you're starting from scratch. It's going to be a nightmare.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:But the tip I'm going to give for other creatives is just post. Like that's, that's literally the least you can do. Nobody understands the algorithm. People come on here and they, they like to pretend like they understand it. I'm pretty sure even the owners of Instagram don't even understand the monster they've created.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:That's why every time someone tries to ask them, they're like, oh, that's just how it is. Oh, you have this policy and blah, blah, blah. They sound confused because people have been complaining about this for like three, four years now, and every time they're like, oh, we're going to work on it. It's just worse than the previous one.
Raya:It's a priority on ads and people who already have this great big following.
Sandra:Exactly.
Raya:And it's like, how do you expect people who,
Sandra:who are just coming in
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:Get any eyes on them, like,
Raya:because they want you to buy them ads. So it all comes down to money.
Sandra:I've bought ads before. They're not great too. They just want you to constantly do it. They just want you to constantly do it and do it and do it. And you know, as I said, like the least you can literally do is post. Post stories if you don't have the strength to like make timeline posts and everything. Post on your stories, record your process. One thing I stopped doing is because everybody's always trying to like be super curated and everything. I've given up on all that. Yeah. It's a waste of time. Especially considering how little the results is going to be. So like just be yourself organic because everybody on this, and I think that's one of the like upper hands TikTok has over Instagram. TikTok is more organic.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:I still struggle a little bit with TikTok outside, like sharing my content, like cross posting. And I do get some eyes on TikTok. I'm not very consistent on there, but like be organic. You cannot be one of the overly curated girlies. It doesn't work like that. Like those people have already started making that IG money or they are looking to make that IG content creator money. So they have to present an image that most of them really are not but it's not sustainable in the long run. Like how long do you want to curate your content for? Especially as a creative,
Raya:that's a good point.
Sandra:You have to do something that's like natural to you, something that you know, that you can continue regardless of what platform you're on. I know that's what I've been doing. That's what has been working for me. I can be in bed, pick a picture, open camera, do something. But if I have to like, get up, reorganize, do this, do that every time I want to post.
Raya:Yes. That's what I've been going through too, because I, I, I guess I gotta join these TikTokers but I've been wanting to share my poetry more.
Sandra:Mm-hmm.
Raya:But then I'm also like, I've been saving up for my own place and then I'm like, I can't really do it in my room because I have a lot of stuff in here. It's not really aesthetically pleasing and
Sandra:Oh, you gotta get over that.
Raya:Yeah. You brought up a good point that when these people are presenting this aesthetically pleasing life, it's because they're already making that aesthetically pleasing money. Exactly. So they can pay for the, the minimal list, like cozy chair, greenery, plants all around. They can pay for that. They have space for that.
Sandra:Plants are not cheap.
Raya:Yes. The majority of people don't have that aesthetically pleasing house. People got kids, people have responsibilities like the house ain't always gonna be picked up like that.
Sandra:Exactly.
Raya:So that's what I'm trying to get out of.
Sandra:I also learned that most of'em actually just go to studios that are already built for that to record.
Raya:You got a point. I didn't even think about that.
Sandra:And that's the thing. And I, as I said, that's the upper hand TikTok has on Instagram. Instagram, everything is still like put together. Yeah. White gold furniture, whatever, blah, blah, blah. Plants this perfect. You know, I tried it. Yeah, I tried it. I tried it. I, I had, I managed to live in a somewhat aesthetically pleasing apartment, and I can tell you that I created content in there like twice and I hated myself because I do not always carry myself like that. And I like to come off organic and that's why sometimes when I make videos and all that, you will not see me wear makeup. I only wear makeup when I want to wear makeup.
Raya:Same here. I am not. I don't be done up for nothing.
Sandra:Yeah. For someone who used to be a makeup artist, huh?
Raya:Makeup takes time. Like I always look at those makeup videos it, and it's like,
Sandra:it takes so much time.
Raya:It does.
Sandra:It's like, and it's like there's this other layer on your face and you want to lay in bed and like, oh, I don't wanna stain my sheets and blah, blah, blah. So it's like, you know, as creatives, honest advice, do something like start off in a way that you know you want to continue and evolve from there. Don't start off with something that is not you, because you're trying to keep up with an image that you think is a popular image. Trends come and go very fast.
Raya:Yes.
Sandra:That minimalist apartment is trending now in another year. I personally, I feel like it's starting to go away because people are starting to like add color and like add things here and there and people are saying, everyone's trying to be all, oh, I'm an eccentric person and blah, blah blah. You know? It's like, yeah, trust me, I see it coming. It's like I've seen a very slight degrees in the all whites.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:I started to see color tapestry and all of that stuff. So it's like just do you, just do you, if you follow the crowd because you're trying to create content and you're trying to look a certain way, you're gonna tire out fast.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:Real fast. And you won't be able to keep up because then things will constantly change and at the end, you're going to be the one burnt out broke because you spends all your money trying to buy plants and shelves. And popular furniture. So manage your pocket. I'm just saying.
Raya:And you're so right.
Sandra:I'm just saying it's like, you know, everybody just needs to do what you can do and what you can sustain because I try to be as optimistic as possible, but things don't look like they're gonna be getting any better anytime soon. So hang on to what you have going on for you right now.
Raya:Yes. Ooh, that was good advice. We are nearing the end of this podcast.
Sandra:Ooh, this has been fun.
Raya:I can't believe that this has been your first time because you are such a good time. My final question for you is what excites you about creativity in your own life?
Sandra:That I get to do it. That's literally it. I, I'm privileged to be in a space where, especially considering my background coming in here as an international student and the struggles of transitioning from an international student to an immigrant, I'm just very thankful that I'm in a place where I can say, you know what? I don't wanna work corporate. I want to just be a creative, because for most people who coming here like I did, they have to work corporate to stay here.
Raya:Yeah.
Sandra:But I didn't have to do that. So I, I, I'm just very excited and thankful that I have the opportunity and the space and the support to be a creative without like that unnecessary pressure to go out and get a job or, you know, I still feel it sometimes, but like, it could be worse. Yeah. It could really be worse. Like, even though I still feel it sometimes I can still take time out, can still like, dust it off and still take time out to go do what I really enjoy. And that is like a very big thing for me. Every time I sit down and I'm, I get to draw, I get to paint, I get to make jewelry. I'm very thankful because I could be doing something else that will suck so bad. And here I am working with polymer clay that looks like Play-Doh, but isn't Play-Doh.
Raya:I love that answer.
Sandra:I'm very full of gratitude. Yeah.
Raya:Well tell everybody how they can get some earrings. How they can get some prints.
Sandra:Okay. Uh,
Raya:and it's full price everybody. Don't try to lowball Sandra.
Sandra:So there's no, no lowballing, please. I'm sorry I'm not a, I'm not a cheap girl. I don't wanna buy y'all's affection with cheap prices. To get earrings right now, I'm still working on my website, but you can go onto my Instagram. I have some pieces for sale and if you see something else that like interests you, you can request that. I can just make it even if it's sold out on the page. But my Instagram, my jewelry Instagram is Nnela Co. Um, she'll share the link.
Raya:Yes I will.
Sandra:Yeah because I know most people won't be able to spell it because it is in my native language.
Raya:Does it have a meaning?
Sandra:Yes, it means Mother Earth.
Raya:Oh, I love that. Okay.
Sandra:Yeah. Cause I'm working with Clay, you know, so
Raya:I like that.
Sandra:Just send me a message. I'm always online, unfortunately, cause Instagram has bought my soul but I'm always online on the lookout, so if you message me, I'll be there. Um, Even if you just want to talk, I'm always there too. You can also find me on my personal page, which is also where you can get the link to buy art, and that is at Sandra A Uche on Instagram. I'm working on having like an off Instagram online space so be on the lookout for that. We're all here. I'm still growing. I have no idea where I'm headed, but
Raya:The future is bright.
Sandra:It's very bright. I, I can see the light up. Not that light, but the light. Um, but um, yeah, I'm working on getting like an off social media platform so just stay in the loop and I'll be happy to chat and share my creative journey with you and everybody else.
Raya:Yeah. Yes. Hand clap for Sandra. Well, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. This has been a good time.
Sandra:Thank you for having me! It's been great. My first podcast feature. Oh my god.
Raya:Yes. I'm glad you've chosen Sheer Creativity to be your first.
Sandra:I know more to come. Yes. It felt right. I had to.
Raya:Thank you guys for tuning into the Sheer Creativity Podcast. I hope you guys enjoyed Sandra as much as I did. And yes, my shipment of earrings is on the way. I have all of Sandra's contact information in the show notes, so definitely go follow her, buy some art, buy some jewelry, and support a creative. and another way that you can support Sheer Creativity is following us on Instagram at Sheer Creativity, and also subscribe to our newsletter on Substack which will also be in the show notes. So you guys have a wonderful day. Go out, be creative, and practice what you love. I'll see you guys next week.
